I always assumed public transportation was universally terrible

"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion) 08/13/2019 at 19:41 • Filed to: None

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Seattle public transportation is a joke, and pricey for what you (don’t) get. Not to mention the endless “ infrastructure improvement” projects that always that either go nowhere, or don’t make a noticeable positive difference. NYC subways—while providing some great people watching—smelled like piss at best and were full of people that seemed dangerously unhinged. Europe was disorganized and pretty hit-or-miss. Australia... Well. Most of Australia was a drunken haze as my first real international trip, so I can’t really comment.

Tokyo has shown me the way.

The infrastructure here is absolutely mind-blowing. You can seemingly get anywhere, quickly and cheap via the trains and subways. Even with no understanding of Japanese, buying a suica card (what you use to pay for all sorts of things), loading it up at various terminals and finding your way around is as easy as can be. Maps are everywhere, layouts are well thought-out, employees and security guards are happy to help and appear to take pride in their jobs... And when people talk about Japan’s tendency to always be on time, they’re not joking. There has not been a single instance so far where anything has arrived late.

And then there’s just walking. I’ve never been to such a walkable city in my life. For how massive and dense the city is, there’s greenery everywhere, super wide walking paths, infinite shortcuts through air-conditioned shopping centers.... The journey is every bit as enjoyable as the destination here.

I love this city. The food has been incredible, from the cheap stuff ($4 drinks and $7 meals? You can hardly find double that price in Seattle), to the high-end.

We went out to a Yakiniku place last night, which is where servers bring you a ton of cuts of beef, that you grill over coals in the center of your table. They tell you what is meant to be eaten with salt, with lemon juice, with sweet chili sauce, etc. The course we ordered went up to the highest grade of wagyu beef, and eating that was the closest I’ve come to heaven. For the final course, a server brought out paper-thin slices of beef and cooked them himself for 5 seconds per side. He broke an egg yolk and mixed it into the beef, then wrapped the eggy slice of beef around a small rice ball and directed us to eat the entire thing. Easily the best meal I’ve had in years, if not in my life.

AAnyways, it’s time for some breakfast. I’m thinking a local bakery.

How are all of you doing?

I’ve seen no less than six FF’s since arriving in Tokyo. Wagons are absolutely everywhere, from mazdas to BMW’s.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 19:48

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This BBC news article encapsulates the difference between Japan’s approach to public transpo rt and the rest of the wo r ld’s.

AestheticsInMotion > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 08/13/2019 at 19:51

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Sounds about right.

It's unreal. It's kind of like how there isn't a spot of trash on the roads. It feels so right, and you wish it was like that everywhere

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 19:51

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I’ve had good experiences with the trains in Chicago and the D.C. area. I’ve also had miserable experiences in San Francisco and New York. American public transport isn’t universally bad.

Glad you’re having the time of your life.  Thanks for checking in!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 19:54

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Very cool! How long are you there for? :)

Bring me back a kei car when you come back! :P

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 19:58

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Yes, but they pay a very high price for it in terms of the social constraints embed ded in their culture. I used to work for a company that was partly Japane se owned. We often had Japanese engineers seconded to our operation, but head office had a firm policy that no engineer would be sent to  “the west” for more than 6 months and never more than once every few years. Apparently more than that and they found i t very hard to adapt to being back in Japan , havi ng become acclimatized to greater freedom of behavior .

MrDakka > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 19:58

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Lol here in LA, the metro can be anywhere from a couple minutes to almost half an hour late. At least Google maps will tell you how much the train will be late by

facw > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:03

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NYC subways—while providing some great people watching—smelled like piss at best and were full of people that seemed dangerously unhinged. 

This is really only half true. Yeah they smell like piss (not much more than the rest of the city I’d say, the worst spots are just outside the entrances to large apartments where every dog pisses on the way out). But as far as the homeless go, the ones on the subway are pretty harmless. Worst I’ve seen is a guy peeing, and even then he tried to go between the cars first but the door was locked (every year a number of people are killed when they fall trying to relieve themselves between the cars). And even then it’s really only like ~2-6AM where there are problems, normally if they are there they just sit and mind their own business, often sleeping. My rating of Manhattan’s homeless in terms of unhingedness:

Port Authority Bus Terminal

Along bike path east of the FDR at night

Penn Station

Normal Street Homeless

Subway Homeless

But yeah, I often feel like we should be importing Japanese and Germans to run our passenger rail.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 08/13/2019 at 20:05

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Yeah I had a director who worked for Microsoft over in Japan and there were certain things that you could and could not do, and he said going against the grain was highly discouraged.

It’s an interesting culture for shure, but it has tradeoffs too. 

someassemblyrequired > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:05

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I love how Suica is actually short for

S uper U rban I ntelligent CA rd

It’s named like a JDM Nissan from the 80s.

M.T. Blake > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:06

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Take lots of notes. I need to pick your brain. I’ll be there in April. 

RPM esq. > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:15

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I love visiting Japan but could never live there. I recommend late-night horsemeat sashimi to accompany your highball if you find yourself in that sort of bar.

DutchieDC2R > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:16

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I absolutely agree with you on Japan public transportation, however, I can’t really understand your Europe comment. Where were you that it was disorganised? 

gin-san - shitpost specialist > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:22

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I absolutely love Tokyo but I am planning to go back, hopefully next s pring.

The only public transit I love just as much as Tokyo is in Singapore. After that... Seoul. Singapore has a all-you-can-ride card for a certain time period for tourists, I think it was $20 for 3 days. Seoul has a system very much like Suica, but the cards can be refilled at any convenience store with cash. IIRC Suica requires you to refill it at the subway station.

Asian public transit is generally easy and pleasant.

The darker side to Tokyo transit is that they have women-only cars for a reason. Not saying that women-only cars are bad, but the reason they have them is unfortunate.

Food in Japan is actually quite cheap - two of my favourite meals were around $10, drink included. These are meals that would likely be around $30 here in Canada quite easily, and possibly worse because of our generous sales tax and the ridiculous North American tipping culture. 

AestheticsInMotion > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 08/13/2019 at 20:24

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I’ve gotten a bit of exposure to Japanese businesses and yes, it seems.... Rough from my western point of view.

I think that's why I loved the metal bar I found a few nights ago. Everyone there just kind of let loose

AestheticsInMotion > RPM esq. 08/13/2019 at 20:25

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I'll give that a shot! I've been wondering why highballs are so popular over here

subexpression > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:25

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I think Chicago trains were much better than what I saw in NYC . Atlanta also seemed OK for the brief time I was on it. St Louis trains didn’t seem to keep any particular schedule and the lines don’t go very many places.

AestheticsInMotion > someassemblyrequired 08/13/2019 at 20:25

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That's beautiful

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:25

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I’m headed there in January and super stoked.

AestheticsInMotion > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/13/2019 at 20:26

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This is my last full day! Surprisingly very few Kei cars, although lots of trucks!

AestheticsInMotion > M.T. Blake 08/13/2019 at 20:26

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I've got a notepad full of juicy tidbits. Do you know where you're staying? 

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:26

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I live on the outskirts of Philly and the public transportation here blows. However, I was amazed at how efficient Chicago and Boston both are. I think there are pockets of not terrible in the US, you just have to know where to look. Or maybe Philly is just on a whole  new level of terrible and I don’t know how good other countries have it.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:29

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Yeah, in the heart of the city I would think you would actually see fewer as everybody would use public transit anyway!

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:31

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Japan’s metal scene is insane. Such a unique take on the genre and they know how to mosh better than anyone.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:32

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Or youve seen the same FF 6 times...

Also, go eat some okonomiyaki while you're, for me, please. I still dream about it 3 years later. 

AestheticsInMotion > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/13/2019 at 20:34

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Ha! Possibly, although if he’s followed us throughout this many wards I should probably be worried! Also, what’s the deal with people pulling stopping in the middle of the street, getting out of their car and smoking?

Okay, I'll try that

AestheticsInMotion > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/13/2019 at 20:35

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I need to go to a metal concert next time

someassemblyrequired > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:54

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I mean it could use like 12 more adjectives, but it’s definitely getting there.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 20:59

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It’s firmly on my bucket list.

Nibby > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 21:01

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SARVAMANGALAM BHAVATU BHAVATU BHAVATU

gin-san - shitpost specialist > RPM esq. 08/13/2019 at 21:06

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Never live there in what sense? I’d love it if I could live there for long periods as a tourist but I don’t think I could be a white-collar worker in that kind of culture.

I loved highballs in Japan, both at restaurants and in the deadly cans from the convenience store.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 21:27

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I think the main problem with transit in the United States is chasing trends(“ lets do a monorail ”), lack of early(every year of development of suburbs from 1950s to the present made it incrementally harder to get transit infrastructure in place) and consistent(transit projects are at the whim of whatever is politically popular at the time) development over time, and just generally trying to please everyone, even non-users who will never be users.

All of that said, my sister in law has lived in Seattle for 20 years now and the last 10-12 have been without a car. She has no real qualms about the transit there.

I’m jealous you’re in Japan; it’s in my top 3 destinations to visit.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/13/2019 at 22:19

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I find Aggretsuko on Netflix very telling as a result of the metal scene there  

M.T. Blake > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 23:03

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Not specifically, but Tokyo and maybe other places. Got a buddy I’m going with and we need to hash out the specifics. If you have any suggestions please let me know. It will be our first time there, a little apprehensive as I know English and bad English, very little Japanese, but I hear everyone is helpful for foreigners. 

AestheticsInMotion > M.T. Blake 08/13/2019 at 23:28

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I’ll send you what I’ve learned when I sit down and grab a drink a bit later

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 08/13/2019 at 23:37

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Seattle’s public transit is actually alright if you can deal with some inconsistency ( downtown has a tunnel that makes it more reliable because it’s not at the mercy of traffic, but traffic throughout the metro is pretty awful at this point ) and avoid transfers. I have a single bus between home and work, otherwise I might hate it more, but I have also used it quite a bit in downtown and to/from the airport. All that is reasonable.

The weird part is the suburbs, where the lack of density and the strangely overlaid system is really annoying to navigate. At some point the locals decided the solution to the bizarre mix of public transit agencies was to create a single card that could pay for nearly all of them (ORCA), so your random trip with 4 different transit agencies is relatively seamless (one that I have done: Kitsap Transit -> WSF -> Metro -> Sound Transit, all on my ORCA). The next problem is that a handful of agencies opted out and there are like 35 public transit agencies with overlapping regions   within the greater metro area.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 08/13/2019 at 23:39

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DC is the biggest pocket of not terrible. Boston has a lot of transit that seems safe, but it’s a freaking maze.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > DutchieDC2R 08/13/2019 at 23:45

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Europe has fabulous public transit everywhere in my experience, too. Even the “bad” train system in the UK was far  better than anything I’ve seen in the US.

M.T. Blake > AestheticsInMotion 08/13/2019 at 23:54

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Excellent. Take your time.

RPM esq. > gin-san - shitpost specialist 08/14/2019 at 00:14

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I n the sense of live, work , spend more time than you spend in other places . As in, not a temporary  visit. How can “live there” possibly be a concept that requires further explanation ?

Jan > AestheticsInMotion 08/14/2019 at 04:08

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“ Europe was disorganized and pretty hit-or-miss”??? Have you been to Berlin? London? Paris? Warsaw? Prague? They all have great public transport that will take you pretty much anywhere. I don’t know what Europe are you talking about but from my perspective most European Cities (both west and central Europe) have great public transport (unlike U.S. ).

pip bip - choose Corrour > AestheticsInMotion 08/14/2019 at 04:09

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not all public transport is terrible.

you generally only hear about negative expreriences, no one tweets train was on time or early much

AestheticsInMotion > Jan 08/14/2019 at 05:20

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The UK and France were what I was referring to. Better than I've seen in the US, but still not exactly pleasant. 

AestheticsInMotion > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 08/14/2019 at 05:23

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I keep meaning to watch that

AestheticsInMotion > DutchieDC2R 08/14/2019 at 05:24

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UK and France roughly t en years ago

AestheticsInMotion > facw 08/14/2019 at 05:26

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Ah, I wasn't talking about the homeless when I referred to unhinged people. I actually don't recall seeing many

AestheticsInMotion > Chariotoflove 08/14/2019 at 05:27

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I really want to visit Chicago 

AestheticsInMotion > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/14/2019 at 05:28

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Just sharing what I've experienced. Japan has been such a huge contrast compared to everywhere else I've been

AestheticsInMotion > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 08/14/2019 at 05:28

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You should be

Dakotahound > AestheticsInMotion 08/14/2019 at 07:35

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Wow, it sounds like you are having a nice time. What a great trip.

Actually, the Seattle public transportation system used to be pretty good. We l ived on Whidbey Island in the 1990s, and getting to downtown was fairly eas y. The trip involved a short ferry ride; and there was a park-and-ride bus waiting for the boat to arrive at the Muki lteo dock . The b us made limited stops (2 or 3, if I remember correctly) and then headed downtown where it converted into a subway car and went underground. Of course, that was the 1990s. I am sure that, due to the incredible growth in the region, the system does not run as smoothly any more.

A few years ago, we took a trip to Washington D.C. and used the transit system. It worked very nicely. We arrived in Arlington via AMTRAK and stayed at a hotel within easy walking distance of the station. The same station had Washington Metro service, which took us everywhere we needed to go.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 08/14/2019 at 08:17

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My roommate watched part of the first episode of this. I’m intrigued by how this ties into the metal scene.

facw > AestheticsInMotion 08/14/2019 at 09:01

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They are normally out and about during the day. Because the system runs 24/7 the subway provides decent shelter at night.

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 08/14/2019 at 11:39

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Highly recommend it. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > M.T. Blake 08/14/2019 at 11:40

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Embrace the language barrier. Practically nobody speaks English, and very few things are labeled in English, but that’s part of the fun. It’s an extremely safe place and people are very, very polite and helpful - between that and having the backup of a smartphone to look things up you’ll be totally fine.

duurtlang > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 08/14/2019 at 14:03

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Boston? As a European I was amazed by Boston public transportation, and not in a good way. It is at least usable, I will give it that.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/14/2019 at 16:57

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If you want a real laugh, I pulled that 35 out of my ass. The actual number in the state is 32 for those that fit into the various state laws covering PBTAs, CTAs, CPTAs, MCTAs, UTBAs, and RTAs. The others that don’t fit include WSF (WSDOT; ORCA; competes with at least Kitsap Transit on cross-sound ferries (fully shared facilities)), King County Water Taxis ( an entirely different system that shares some facilities with WSF ), Intercity Buses (WSDOT), Seattle Center Monorail , Seattle Streetcar , numerous regional shuttle bus services, etc. All but the regional buses on this list are part of the ORCA system...

gin-san - shitpost specialist > RPM esq. 08/14/2019 at 18:29

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I was just wondering if it was one specific reason as opposed to everything, that’s all.